From justin at lowtech.org Mon Jul 2 07:27:53 2007 From: justin at lowtech.org (justin) Date: Mon Jul 2 07:27:55 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: MIDI notes to effect in Ableton Live In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1abb3.4688fd58@www.cycling74.com> that's what i had to do (change effects to instruments). but there are logistical problems with that, which makes programming and using pluggo midi effect plugins (in Live) a PITA. personally, i have reverted back to routing midi via max virtual ports because pluggo midi effects quickly become too idiosynchratic. j Quote: Dan Nigrin wrote on Fri, 29 June 2007 13:15 ---------------------------------------------------- > Thanks Andrew - after combing through the forum archives, that does > seem to be what others have found too... > > Get David Z. to call those guys up at Ableton! ;-) > > Dan > > At 6:53 PM -0700 6/28/07, Andrew Pask wrote: > >IIRC the way Live works is that only synths can receive MIDI. > > > >Effects can however send MIDI. You'll need to workaround it somehow....? > > > >-A From tical at grafichehorizon.it Wed Jul 4 00:52:34 2007 From: tical at grafichehorizon.it (Tical) Date: Wed Jul 4 00:52:46 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Hipno, Cubase 4 and NI Kore Message-ID: <1ac3b.468b43af@www.cycling74.com> Hi there, I'm still wandering the Cubase4/Pluggo incompatibility limbo, and didn't make any decision, yet, as for my need for a granular software (Hipno would have been my software of choice, if not for the aforesaid prob). In the meantime, I've purchased NI Kore, so here's my question: is Kore a solution in order to using Pluggo/Hipno plugs with Cubase 4 on MacIntel? Since CB4 would be the host of Kore and Kore would be the host of Hipno (VST and/or AU, it wouldn't matter), would the graphic/interface problem occur anyway? And, are there any other known issues? Many thanks in advance. --- Toti (Italy) From oli_larkin at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jul 5 02:26:58 2007 From: oli_larkin at yahoo.co.uk (Oliver Larkin) Date: Thu Jul 5 02:27:00 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: MIDI notes to effect in Ableton Live In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1ac9d.468cab51@www.cycling74.com> Hi Dan, I have also come across this issue in Logic (There is a untidy workaround using sidechaining see http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300097). AFAIK on Mac, Cubase is the only host that allows you to easily route midi to effects plugins. I get round this by using a send object inside a dummy instrument plugin. So you insert the effect plugin on an effect track and insert the dummy synth on an instrument track. Then all the midi you send to the instrument track gets sent across to the effect plugin. If you want to have multiple instances of the effect, you need to set up some kind of ID mechanism so the midi gets routed to the correct plugin. hope that helps, Oli -- int.lib for Max: www.oli.adbe.org From dan at defectiverecords.com Thu Jul 5 06:53:11 2007 From: dan at defectiverecords.com (Dan Nigrin) Date: Thu Jul 5 06:57:46 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: MIDI notes to effect in Ableton Live In-Reply-To: <1ac9d.468cab51@www.cycling74.com> References: <1ac9d.468cab51@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: Thanks Oli, Yeah, for my purposes all these workarounds were too much effort (anticipated effort for my plugins' end users that is), so I've reverted to just using MIDI CC info instead of MIDI notes for what I'm doing... Dan At 2:26 AM -0600 7/5/07, Oliver Larkin wrote: >Hi Dan, > >I have also come across this issue in Logic (There is a untidy >workaround using sidechaining see >http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300097). > >AFAIK on Mac, Cubase is the only host that allows you to easily >route midi to effects plugins. > >I get round this by using a send object inside a dummy instrument >plugin. So you insert the effect plugin on an effect track and >insert the dummy synth on an instrument track. Then all the midi you >send to the instrument track gets sent across to the effect plugin. >If you want to have multiple instances of the effect, you need to >set up some kind of ID mechanism so the midi gets routed to the >correct plugin. > >hope that helps, > >Oli >-- >int.lib for Max: www.oli.adbe.org >_______________________________________________ >pluggo mailing list >pluggo@cycling74.com >http://www.cycling74.com/mailman/listinfo/pluggo -- Dan Nigrin Defective Records 202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major Malfunction http://www.defectiverecords.com http://www.jackosx.com From plutone at earthlink.net Thu Jul 5 15:59:32 2007 From: plutone at earthlink.net (Martin Blasick) Date: Thu Jul 5 15:59:34 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Stopped working in Mac ProTools ; - ( Message-ID: <1aceb.468d69c3@www.cycling74.com> It was working great. Now no pluggos show up. They do show up as VST in Live and AU in Garage Band. But I'm really a PT person. MacIntel laptop. PT LE 7.1.1. I tried reinstalling Pluggo runtime and Pluggo Jr. 3.6.1. The RTAS stub plug is in the plugins folder. But nothing shows up in the plug ins list. Any ideas? From dan at defectiverecords.com Fri Jul 6 08:16:35 2007 From: dan at defectiverecords.com (Dan Nigrin) Date: Fri Jul 6 08:17:05 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Crash with AU plugin on quit with Ableton Live Message-ID: <1ad0f.468e4ec2@www.cycling74.com> I am getting frequent crashes with my plugin when quitting Live 5.x and 6.x (Mac), but only when I use the AU version. The crash logs are either identical to the one below, or at least always contain references to com.apple.QD and com.apple.HIToolbox routines at the top of the crashed thread. Does anyone (maybe from Cycling?) have any ideas about why this is occurring? Thanks, Dan Date/Time: 2007-07-06 09:55:35.570 -0400 OS Version: 10.4.10 (Build 8R2218) Report Version: 4 Command: Live Path: /Applications/Live 5.2 OS X/Live.app/Contents/MacOS/Live Parent: WindowServer [94] Version: 5.2 (5.2) PID: 781 Thread: 0 Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001) Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x726f434f Thread 0 Crashed: 0 com.apple.QD 0x91718d93 InternalColor2Index + 69 1 com.apple.QD 0x91718cb1 Color2IndexWithPortAndGDevice + 40 2 com.apple.QD 0x9171ea9c RGBForeColor + 86 3 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x92f5e479 StdExit + 76 4 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x92f65260 TECalText + 150 5 com.cycling74.MaxPlugLib 0x1cf80e31 textbox_setatoms + 217 6 com.cycling74.MaxPlugLib 0x1cf651de vmessage_qfn(_vmessage*) + 156 7 com.cycling74.MaxPlugLib 0x1cfb0fdd sched_dequeue + 101 8 com.cycling74.MaxPlugLib 0x1cfc596a patcher_closebang + 98 9 com.cycling74.MaxPlugLib 0x1cfc9dd8 patcher_invis + 28 10 com.cycling74.VstPlugLib 0x0283e753 vstplug_editclose + 223 11 com.cycling74.VstPlugLib 0x0284420d vstplug_dispatcher + 1229 12 com.cycling74.PluggoAU 0x028163ac PluggoAUEntry + 11522 13 com.cycling74.PluggoAU 0x0281249c 0x2808000 + 42140 14 com.cycling74.PluggoAU 0x0280b7d3 0x2808000 + 14291 15 com.cycling74.PluggoAU 0x0280d70d 0x2808000 + 22285 16 com.cycling74.PluggoAU 0x02821d11 0x2808000 + 105745 17 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x90cd0738 CallComponentDispatch + 34 18 ...apple.audio.units.AudioUnit 0x93e637fc AudioUnitSetProperty + 67 19 com.cycling74.PluggoAU 0x0281a113 PluggoAUEntry + 27241 20 com.cycling74.PluggoAU 0x0281a276 PluggoAUViewEntry + 140 21 com.cycling74.PluggoAU 0x0281b30a PluggoAUViewEntry + 4384 22 com.cycling74.PluggoAU 0x0280e9f7 0x2808000 + 27127 23 com.cycling74.PluggoAU 0x028224d3 0x2808000 + 107731 24 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x90cd0738 CallComponentDispatch + 34 25 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x90cd1cb1 CallComponentClose + 43 26 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x90cd1bd4 CloseComponentInternal(ComponentInstanceRecord*) + 94 27 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x90cd1b5f CloseComponent + 39 28 com.ableton.live 0x00c5eda7 0x1000 + 12967335 29 com.ableton.live 0x00c5d193 0x1000 + 12960147 30 com.ableton.live 0x005abc95 0x1000 + 5942421 31 com.ableton.live 0x003a0a3b 0x1000 + 3799611 32 com.ableton.live 0x010d2eea OMessageQueue::ProcessAndSubMessage() + 190 33 com.ableton.live 0x008e7ab1 0x1000 + 9333425 34 com.ableton.live 0x0030aff7 0x1000 + 3186679 35 com.ableton.live 0x0014040e 0x1000 + 1307662 36 com.ableton.live 0x0030c1a6 0x1000 + 3191206 37 com.ableton.live 0x003257f6 0x1000 + 3295222 38 com.ableton.live 0x00ced18e 0x1000 + 13549966 39 com.ableton.live 0x0079ffed 0x1000 + 7991277 40 com.ableton.live 0x010a961b TQuery::~TQuery [not-in-charge]() + 14267 41 com.ableton.live 0x0040fcb3 0x1000 + 4254899 42 com.ableton.live 0x0040fcb3 0x1000 + 4254899 43 com.ableton.live 0x0040fcb3 0x1000 + 4254899 44 com.ableton.live 0x0040fcb3 0x1000 + 4254899 45 com.ableton.live 0x0041620f 0x1000 + 4280847 46 com.ableton.live 0x004168f1 0x1000 + 4282609 47 com.ableton.live 0x00416bc5 0x1000 + 4283333 48 com.ableton.live 0x002df0c0 0x1000 + 3006656 49 com.ableton.live 0x0006fa97 0x1000 + 453271 50 com.ableton.live 0x0007045d 0x1000 + 455773 51 com.ableton.live 0x0000296e 0x1000 + 6510 52 com.ableton.live 0x00002889 0x1000 + 6281 Thread 1: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90009cd7 mach_msg_trap + 7 1 com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI 0x967df93b XServerMachPort::ReceiveMessage(int&, void*, int&) + 101 2 com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI 0x967d7e8d MIDIInPortThread::Run() + 113 3 com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI 0x967d8b6d XThread::RunHelper(void*) + 17 4 com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI 0x967e04ad CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 93 5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024227 _pthread_body + 84 Thread 2: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9002493f semaphore_wait_trap + 7 1 com.ableton.live 0x00c634de 0x1000 + 12985566 2 com.ableton.live 0x00e0f75d 0x1000 + 14739293 3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024227 _pthread_body + 84 Thread 3: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90009cd7 mach_msg_trap + 7 1 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9082d2b3 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 2014 2 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9082cace CFRunLoopRunInMode + 61 3 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x9146841e HALRunLoop::OwnThread(void*) + 158 4 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x91468239 CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 93 5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024227 _pthread_body + 84 Thread 4: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90037b57 mach_wait_until + 7 1 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x90ce6319 Delay + 118 2 ...opellerheads.rewire.library 0x198a07e8 RWPUnregisterDeviceImp + 21574 3 ...opellerheads.rewire.library 0x198bba5c RWPUnregisterDeviceImp + 132794 4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024227 _pthread_body + 84 Thread 5: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90047dd7 semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 7 1 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x90ce1da9 TSWaitOnSemaphoreCommon + 163 2 ...ickTimeComponents.component 0x98cc018a ReadSchedulerThreadEntryPoint + 4895 3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024227 _pthread_body + 84 Thread 6: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90047dd7 semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 7 1 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x9147565c CAGuard::WaitFor(unsigned long long) + 212 2 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x9147557e CAGuard::WaitUntil(unsigned long long) + 66 3 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x91473efa HP_IOThread::WorkLoop() + 690 4 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x91473c43 HP_IOThread::ThreadEntry(HP_IOThread*) + 17 5 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x91468239 CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 93 6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024227 _pthread_body + 84 Thread 7: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90047dd7 semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 7 1 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x9147565c CAGuard::WaitFor(unsigned long long) + 212 2 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x9147557e CAGuard::WaitUntil(unsigned long long) + 66 3 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x91473efa HP_IOThread::WorkLoop() + 690 4 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x91473c43 HP_IOThread::ThreadEntry(HP_IOThread*) + 17 5 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x91468239 CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 93 6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024227 _pthread_body + 84 Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit): eax: 0x726f432f ebx: 0x1cf80d66 ecx: 0x00000001 edx: 0x01893100 edi: 0xbfffed42 esi: 0x00000000 ebp: 0xbfffed08 esp: 0xbfffeca0 ss: 0x0000001f efl: 0x00010246 eip: 0x91718d93 cs: 0x00000017 ds: 0x0000001f es: 0x0000001f fs: 0x00000000 gs: 0x00000037 -- Dan Nigrin Defective Records 202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major Malfunction http://www.defectiverecords.com http://www.jackosx.com From am.syn at web.de Sat Jul 7 16:03:27 2007 From: am.syn at web.de (Volker) Date: Sat Jul 7 16:03:29 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Crash with AU plugin on quit with Ableton Live In-Reply-To: <1ad0f.468e4ec2@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1ad70.46900dae@www.cycling74.com> I have nearly the same prob in logic 7 but on my sys is not enough ram so when i close the plug some handlers crashing. but i think you have enough ram on board,so it looks like a quick draw prob.maybe some corrupt graphics in you plug?? greetz...am From dan at defectiverecords.com Sat Jul 7 16:52:43 2007 From: dan at defectiverecords.com (Dan Nigrin) Date: Sat Jul 7 16:52:50 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Crash with AU plugin on quit with Ableton Live In-Reply-To: <1ad70.46900dae@www.cycling74.com> References: <1ad70.46900dae@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: At 4:03 PM -0600 7/7/07, Volker wrote: >I have nearly the same prob in logic 7 but on my sys is not enough >ram so when i close the plug some handlers crashing. >but i think you have enough ram on board,so it looks like a quick >draw prob.maybe some corrupt graphics in you plug?? >greetz...am Thanks for the reply - I'm fairly certain the graphics are fine, because the VST version works fine, and the AU version does too while I'm using it - it's just when I'm quitting Ableton with the plug still active that it crashes... Dan -- Dan Nigrin Defective Records 202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major Malfunction http://www.defectiverecords.com http://www.jackosx.com From am.syn at web.de Sun Jul 8 04:24:36 2007 From: am.syn at web.de (Volker) Date: Sun Jul 8 04:24:38 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Crash with AU plugin on quit with Ableton Live In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1ad78.4690bb63@www.cycling74.com> did you check the plug in AU LAB or other AU hosts? Maybe it`s a generally AU problem with QD or a live problem. My plugs working fine in both modes. is it possible to check your plug on my sys???when yes you can send me a link offline if you like. greetz...am From dan at defectiverecords.com Sun Jul 8 15:33:42 2007 From: dan at defectiverecords.com (Dan Nigrin) Date: Sun Jul 8 15:33:54 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Crash with AU plugin on quit with Ableton Live In-Reply-To: <1ad78.4690bb63@www.cycling74.com> References: <1ad78.4690bb63@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: I've checked in some other AU hosts where it doesn't happen, but I've not checked in AU Lab which is a good idea, thanks. My plug is a commercial one, but it will have a demo version also, and it should be available soon. Thanks, Dan At 4:24 AM -0600 7/8/07, Volker wrote: >did you check the plug in AU LAB or other AU hosts? >Maybe it`s a generally AU problem with QD or a live problem. >My plugs working fine in both modes. >is it possible to check your plug on my sys???when yes >you can send me a link offline if you like. >greetz...am >_______________________________________________ >pluggo mailing list >pluggo@cycling74.com >http://www.cycling74.com/mailman/listinfo/pluggo -- Dan Nigrin Defective Records 202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major Malfunction http://www.defectiverecords.com http://www.jackosx.com From jross at relic.com Thu Jul 12 14:44:19 2007 From: jross at relic.com (relic_user) Date: Thu Jul 12 14:44:21 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: pluggo 3.6 compatibility with cubase 4 In-Reply-To: <14077.452986e3@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1aed8.4696929f@www.cycling74.com> I notice the last post on this was in May, and the initial post was from Oct. '06, so I thought I'd chime in and see if there's any update on cubase4 compatibility for pluggo? Any ETA would be appreciated, thanks! From dan at defectiverecords.com Thu Jul 12 18:54:25 2007 From: dan at defectiverecords.com (Dan Nigrin) Date: Thu Jul 12 18:54:40 2007 Subject: [pluggo] ANNOUNCE: Major Malfunction v1.5 Message-ID: Please pardon the brief self-promotion: Major Malfunction, my Mac OS X Pluggo-based slice/dicer/mangler/glitcher/FSU plugin specifically tailored for Ableton Live, is now updated to version 1.5. It has many new features and improvements, including new distortion, vocoder, filter, etc.. More info at http://www.defectiverecords.com/majormalfunction - demo version available. And many thanks to all those who have helped me along the way, and/or provided their externals! (Peter Elsea, Jasch, and Bill Orcutt). Thanks, Dan -- Dan Nigrin Defective Records 202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major Malfunction http://www.defectiverecords.com http://www.jackosx.com From i.stevenson at uws.edu.au Fri Jul 13 03:10:48 2007 From: i.stevenson at uws.edu.au (Ian Stevenson) Date: Fri Jul 13 03:10:53 2007 Subject: [pluggo] FW: pluggo rtas not working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2fc9fe6700002a70@uws.edu.au> > > Dear List, > > I have the following: > MacBook Pro OS X 10.4.1 > Pro Tools 7.1.1 > Pluggo 3.6.1 > Max/MSP 4.6.2 > > Pluggos work as vst~ s in Max but in Pro Tools I get many errors when loading > effects. The messages display in the plugin UI is truncated but I can see the > following repeated many times: > > error:/Library/Application Support/C74 Plug-in Sup > error:#PP: no such object > > The /Library/Application Support/C74 Plug-in Support folder exists. Any clues? > > Regards, > Ian > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.cycling74.com/pipermail/pluggo/attachments/20070713/a29860ac/attachment.htm From andrewb at cycling74.com Fri Jul 13 09:36:01 2007 From: andrewb at cycling74.com (andrew benson) Date: Fri Jul 13 09:36:23 2007 Subject: [pluggo] FW: pluggo rtas not working In-Reply-To: <2fc9fe6700002a70@uws.edu.au> References: <2fc9fe6700002a70@uws.edu.au> Message-ID: <46979BE1.4080104@cycling74.com> Please run the C74 Plugin Cleaner included with the installer and re-install Pluggo. If you are still having trouble, email support at cycling74 dot com Best, Andrew Benson From i.stevenson at uws.edu.au Fri Jul 13 22:46:01 2007 From: i.stevenson at uws.edu.au (Ian Stevenson) Date: Fri Jul 13 22:46:19 2007 Subject: [pluggo] FW: pluggo rtas not working In-Reply-To: <0d3d573400023c33@uws.edu.au> Message-ID: <100f25bc0002a924@uws.edu.au> That fixed it, Many thanks! Regards, Ian From: andrew benson Reply-To: Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:36:01 -0700 To: Subject: Re: [pluggo] FW: pluggo rtas not working Please run the C74 Plugin Cleaner included with the installer and re-install Pluggo. If you are still having trouble, email support at cycling74 dot com Best, Andrew Benson _______________________________________________ pluggo mailing list pluggo@cycling74.com http://www.cycling74.com/mailman/listinfo/pluggo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.cycling74.com/pipermail/pluggo/attachments/20070714/8360cd19/attachment.htm From dbeeson at mac.com Mon Jul 16 04:46:37 2007 From: dbeeson at mac.com (Dominic) Date: Mon Jul 16 04:46:40 2007 Subject: [pluggo] get DP5.12 working after Pluggo-induced crash Message-ID: <1af88.469b4c8b@www.cycling74.com> any quick workarounds to get DP to launch? it crashed after fiddling with PluggoBus send/rcv plugs. crashes every time now, even after dragging out DP prefs. i know i could reinstall everything or remove Pluggo temporarily, but i wondered if anyone knew of a quick fix, like a Pluggo prefs file or somesuch. i'm a pretty experienced pluggo user [since pluggo 2 in Dp 2.7], so i have all i need to reinstall, i just don't want to spend the time! regards DP5.12, Pluggo 3.5.4[because it supports my favourite 3rd-party plugs], os 10.4.10, dual 2.0 G5, 4.5GB RAM From dbeeson at mac.com Mon Jul 16 04:54:21 2007 From: dbeeson at mac.com (Dominic) Date: Mon Jul 16 04:54:23 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Pluggo 3.5.4 in DP5.12 Message-ID: <1af8b.469b4e5c@www.cycling74.com> because i like to use a bunch of 3rd-party plugs; all the jk plugs, snow, comber etc., i have downgraded to 3.5.4. has anyone had any problems doing the same thing? so far it's been fine for me but i did just have a DP crash, so i wondered what others' experiences have been. i did let cycling74 know that i was not happy that later pluggo versions don't support the other plugs; as far as i can see, there's no material difference in 3.6. i'm sure they wouldn't have changed it just to exclude the 3rd-party plugs, but that's been the only difference from my POV. i know all the 3rd-party guys have to do is update their plugs, but we're talking small volunteer developers making freeware on a lot of disparate websites. maybe cycling74 should absorb these plugs [they've done this before] into pluggo and update them themselves. do you agree? From c74-mailinglists at e--j.com Mon Jul 16 05:00:27 2007 From: c74-mailinglists at e--j.com (Emmanuel Jourdan) Date: Mon Jul 16 05:00:42 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Pluggo 3.5.4 in DP5.12 In-Reply-To: <1af8b.469b4e5c@www.cycling74.com> References: <1af8b.469b4e5c@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: On 16 juil. 07, at 12:54, Dominic wrote: > because i like to use a bunch of 3rd-party plugs; all the jk plugs, > snow, comber etc., i have downgraded to 3.5.4. > has anyone had any problems doing the same thing? so far it's been > fine for me but i did just have a DP crash, so i wondered what > others' experiences have been. > i did let cycling74 know that i was not happy that later pluggo > versions don't support the other plugs; as far as i can see, > there's no material difference in 3.6. i'm sure they wouldn't have > changed it just to exclude the 3rd-party plugs, but that's been the > only difference from my POV. i know all the 3rd-party guys have to > do is update their plugs, but we're talking small volunteer > developers making freeware on a lot of disparate websites. maybe > cycling74 should absorb these plugs [they've done this before] into > pluggo and update them themselves. The main reason off Pluggo 3.6.x release was to have an Universal Binary version, in order to run smoothly on the new MacTel computers. Sadly, it's not possible to run previous plug-ins without recompiling them because they don't have intel code in it. But there's nothing we can do about it (if you use third party externs which they have to be UB too). ej From dbeeson at mac.com Mon Jul 16 06:49:19 2007 From: dbeeson at mac.com (Dominic) Date: Mon Jul 16 06:49:20 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Pluggo 3.5.4 in DP5.12 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1af94.469b694e@www.cycling74.com> i am stupid! i knew that, of course! then forgot.. sorry to waste forum time! all the same; should i be OK then to continue with 3.5.4; no other big changes besides universal-isation? -- addicted to free plugins! From dbeeson at mac.com Mon Jul 16 09:11:17 2007 From: dbeeson at mac.com (Dominic) Date: Mon Jul 16 09:11:19 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: I can't run 3rd party pluggos anymore In-Reply-To: <1a219.4666fdf0@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1afa3.469b8a94@www.cycling74.com> download pluggo 3.5.4, and you should be OK. i think alot of respondents have not quite understood your problem, but i am in the same boat. i posted a topic today about 3rd party plugs; i have stuck with 3.5.4 because it supports the 3rd party ones. and i'm on 10.4.10, PPC [G5]. it should be in the 'older versions' section. cheers of course, i have been crashing DP in the last coupla days, but i hope there's no connection.. -- addicted to free plugins! From dbeeson at mac.com Tue Jul 17 05:33:14 2007 From: dbeeson at mac.com (Dominic) Date: Tue Jul 17 05:33:17 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: get DP5.12 working after Pluggo-induced crash In-Reply-To: <1af88.469b4c8b@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1afec.469ca8f7@www.cycling74.com> is replying to yourself on a forum the first sign of geek-madness? for others out there; although pluggo was the last thing i was using, it turned out that modulo [a DP synth] had corrupted. my advice [because DP does crap out sometimes] is: drag to desktop 3rd party plugs from MAS plugin folder [eg altiverb]. trash MAS plugs. run latest DP updater; this reinstalls MAS plugs. drag 3rd party plugs back in. rebuild permissions [do this all the time anyway]. hey presto! does anyone else out there agree we should have a Pluggo/Digital Performer thread? -- addicted to free plugins! From stefanjoachimmueller at online.de Tue Jul 17 19:24:53 2007 From: stefanjoachimmueller at online.de (Stefan Müller) Date: Tue Jul 17 19:24:54 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Pluggo VST Midi Converter & Ableton LIVE 6.07 Message-ID: <1b01b.469d6be3@www.cycling74.com> Hi everybody, I am very new to Max and Pluggo (starte yesterday) and I need some help... I am trying to build a midi converter in Max to make it a VST Plug-In for LIVE. I want to convert velocity and aftertouch to CC messages on different controller numbers. In Max it works quite good with the max window. I can also load the VST into LIVE and get Midi out through the plug-in... But the recorded CC information is not as shown in the max window????? Can anyone give me some hints what is wrong???? Here is my patch -- Macbook 2Ghz, Intel Core Duo, 2GB RAM, LIVE 6.07, Reason 3.04, Novation SL37 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: test midi plug2 Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1631 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.cycling74.com/pipermail/pluggo/attachments/20070718/22c7c05d/testmidiplug2.obj From dbeeson at mac.com Wed Jul 18 10:21:12 2007 From: dbeeson at mac.com (Dominic) Date: Wed Jul 18 10:21:14 2007 Subject: [pluggo] anyone remember kuniox pitchscraper? Message-ID: <1b04a.469e3df6@www.cycling74.com> and could anyone recommend how to recreate it in pluggo? it was a mac os 9 vst plug, which moved pitch [and speed] with a graphical automatable interface. what was special was that it didn't use granular principles - changing pitch is easy these days - it actually loaded upcoming audio into its buffer when you raised pitch and dumped it when you lowered it; for every action there was an equal reaction. very useful for rhythmic tracks, since it always devolved back to the audio in the track, which would normally be in rhythm. so if you pushed up the pitch, it sounded like a tape speeding up, then when you let go, it would slow back down. nearest thing yet to actually having a track on tape. there are gezillions of plugs to mess with pitch, but i haven't found quite the right thing yet. i'm even thinking of getting a little reel-to-reel to do this. recommendations would be welcomed! -- addicted to free plugins! From stefanjoachimmueller at online.de Wed Jul 18 14:06:18 2007 From: stefanjoachimmueller at online.de (Stefan Müller) Date: Wed Jul 18 14:06:21 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Pluggo VST Midi Converter & Ableton LIVE 6.07 In-Reply-To: <1b01b.469d6be3@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1b05f.469e72ba@www.cycling74.com> noone can help me??? pleaaaaaaseeeeee.... -- Macbook 2Ghz, Intel Core Duo, 2GB RAM, LIVE 6.07, Reason 3.04, Novation SL37 From laut_leise at gmx.net Thu Jul 19 04:28:38 2007 From: laut_leise at gmx.net (Roman Thilenius) Date: Wed Jul 18 19:30:46 2007 Subject: [pluggo] anyone remember kuniox pitchscraper? In-Reply-To: <1b04a.469e3df6@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: > and could anyone recommend how to recreate it in pluggo? a biiiiig buffer and a play object? > it was a mac os 9 vst plug, which moved pitch [and speed] with a graphical > automatable interface. i think i have it for carbon, it should work in some hosts. unless you are on intel hardware already. From apalomba at austin.rr.com Wed Jul 18 22:35:53 2007 From: apalomba at austin.rr.com (Anthony Palomba) Date: Wed Jul 18 22:35:54 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Re: Sonar and MAX/Pluggo? In-Reply-To: <1700b.45ca95bd@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1b094.469eea26@www.cycling74.com> So I have decided to revisit this issue because I would really like to be able to get pluggo working in Sonar. Up to this point I have not been successful. I have posted below a simple plugin that I am using to test in Sonar 6.2. I am unable to route the output of this sample plugin to any other Sonar midi track. Has anyone has any success with getting pluggo to work in Sonar6? #P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.; #P window linecount 1; #P newex 56 291 177 9109513 midiformat; #P button 36 187 15 0; #P message 56 264 36 9109513 60 127; #P message 56 210 42 9109513 0 \, 1 500; #P newex 56 235 53 9109513 line~ 0 100; #P newex 390 191 33 9109513 sig~ 0; #B color 5; #P newex 390 272 81 9109513 dac~; #P newex 390 232 81 9109513 plugout~; #B color 5; #P user jsui 24 25 47 21 1 0 0 jsui_textbutton.js start; #P number 213 132 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0; #P number 159 132 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0; #P message 57 103 23 9109513 127; #P message 24 103 18 9109513 60; #P newex 24 62 55 9109513 metro 1000; #P newex 394 123 96 9109513 loadmess windowsize; #P newex 24 163 177 9109513 midiformat; #P newex 24 135 101 9109513 pack 0 0; #P number 398 98 90 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0; #P newex 398 74 45 9109513 * 1000.; #P newex 24 325 59 9109513 plugmidiout; #P newex 159 106 64 9109513 unpack 0 0; #P newex 159 79 92 9109513 midiparse; #P newex 308 48 136 9109513 plugsync~; #N plugconfig; #C useviews 1 1 1 1; #C numprograms 4; #C preempt 1; #C sigvschange 1; #C sigvsdefault 32; #C windowsize; #C defaultview Interface 0 0 0; #C dragscroll 1; #C noinfo; #C package ????; #C setprogram 1 "Program 1" 0 0. 1. 0.388889 1. 0.5 0.2; #C uniqueid 128 227 133; #C initialpgm 1; #C synth; #P newobj 394 146 53 9109513 plugconfig; #P newex 159 25 53 9109513 plugmidiin; #P toggle 24 28 15 0; #P connect 18 1 19 1; #P connect 20 0 18 0; #P fasten 20 0 18 1 395 221 466 221; #P connect 7 0 8 0; #P connect 3 6 7 0; #P connect 11 0 2 0; #P connect 18 0 19 0; #P connect 5 1 16 0; #P connect 5 0 15 0; #P connect 4 0 5 0; #P connect 1 0 4 0; #P connect 14 0 9 1; #P fasten 12 0 13 0 29 92 29 92; #P fasten 12 0 14 0 29 96 62 96; #P connect 23 0 25 0; #P fasten 21 1 23 0 104 259 61 259; #P connect 22 0 21 0; #P fasten 24 0 22 0 41 207 61 207; #P fasten 10 0 24 0 29 185 41 185; #P fasten 25 0 6 0 61 315 29 315; #P fasten 10 0 6 0 29 229 29 229; #P connect 9 0 10 0; #P connect 13 0 9 0; #P connect 17 0 12 0; #P hidden connect 17 0 0 0; #P window clipboard copycount 26; From dbeeson at mac.com Thu Jul 19 02:56:34 2007 From: dbeeson at mac.com (Dominic) Date: Thu Jul 19 02:56:36 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: anyone remember kuniox pitchscraper? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1b09f.469f2741@www.cycling74.com> unfortunately i don't write my own! i had a look at MAX/MSP demo once but decided i didn't really have the time to learn to make my own plugs. i heard there was a carbon pitchscraper, but never found it; if you have it, i'd love a copy! i'm still strictly PPC so far, but i bet it's pretty flaky by now, but i'd like to try it. regards Dom -- addicted to free plugins! From laut_leise at gmx.net Thu Jul 19 06:22:03 2007 From: laut_leise at gmx.net (Roman Thilenius) Date: Thu Jul 19 06:22:05 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: anyone remember kuniox pitchscraper? In-Reply-To: <1b09f.469f2741@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1b0a8.469f576b@www.cycling74.com> then this has gone very offtopic now, hu. :) -- http://vst-mac.info/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: KX-PSc.zip Type: application/zip Size: 86610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.cycling74.com/pipermail/pluggo/attachments/20070719/e2092a71/KX-PSc.zip From bbattey at dmu.ac.uk Thu Jul 19 08:36:08 2007 From: bbattey at dmu.ac.uk (Bret Battey) Date: Thu Jul 19 08:36:11 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Tutorial Files - fragload adc~, doesn't understand "package" Message-ID: <1b0ad.469f76d6@www.cycling74.com> The first tutorial file for Pluggo development (and the second, haven't tested beyond) fails on my system: OSX 10.4.9, PPC MAX/MSP 4.6.2, the upgraded to 4.6.3 (same result on both) Pluggo 3.6.1 (unregistered) Using the Tutorial P1 file Save as VST plug (creating "Tutorial P1.vst") Move this file to /Library/Audio/Plug-ins/VST/Pluggo Run AudioUnit Scan.app (succesfully) In both Spark LE and Digital Performer 5.01, pluggin is selectable and loadable in both VST and AU formats. However, instead of parameter sliders, a message appears saying there were two errors. In the AU format, switching to the Max Window view: * doesn't understand "package" * can't fragload adc~ (Actually, if the Pluggo VSTs are in the Pluggo folder, both Spark and DP hang when trying to load them. I don't really care about this, because I'm just trying to make my own plugin. So I've removed all of the Pluggo plugins.) From bbattey at dmu.ac.uk Thu Jul 19 08:47:28 2007 From: bbattey at dmu.ac.uk (Bret Battey) Date: Thu Jul 19 08:47:30 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Tutorial Files - fragload adc~, doesn't understand "package" In-Reply-To: <1b0ad.469f76d6@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1b0ae.469f797f@www.cycling74.com> Ah, of course the "one thing I hadn't tried" prior to posting the message: Ran the C74 Plug-in Cleaner.app in the Pluggo 3.6.1 package, then reinstalled Pluggo 3.6.1. This resolved both problems. (Now to see what additional problems I can create...!) From laut_leise at gmx.net Thu Jul 19 18:27:33 2007 From: laut_leise at gmx.net (Roman Thilenius) Date: Thu Jul 19 09:29:43 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Tutorial Files - fragload adc~, doesn't understand "package" In-Reply-To: <1b0ad.469f76d6@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: > * doesn't understand "package" explanation: package command from [plugconfig] is not needed. solution: you can delete it or live with the error message. > * can't fragload adc~ explanation: [adc~] cannot be loaded because it is not part of the pluggo runtime. solution: you can remove your adc~s from your plug-in patch or live with the error messages. explanation: the world is a flat. solution: 110 From bbattey at dmu.ac.uk Thu Jul 19 10:42:22 2007 From: bbattey at dmu.ac.uk (Bret Battey) Date: Thu Jul 19 10:42:24 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Tutorial Files - fragload adc~, doesn't understand "package" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1b0b4.469f946d@www.cycling74.com> > explanation: > package command from [plugconfig] is not needed. > > solution: > you can delete it or live with the error message. Actually, you can try to delete the package command from plugconfig and save the change, but when you reopen plugconfig, the line is still there. One can't live with the error message, because the error message means that one has an error message instead of a GUI. (But of course neither here nor there, since the solution I have above takes care of these problems.) From dbeeson at mac.com Thu Jul 19 15:15:26 2007 From: dbeeson at mac.com (Dominic) Date: Thu Jul 19 15:15:28 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: anyone remember kuniox pitchscraper? In-Reply-To: <1b04a.469e3df6@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1b0d0.469fd46d@www.cycling74.com> thank you thank you thank you! not quite off topic; we are talking about pitchscraper! btw; can you believe it; it works on intel too! i downloaded MAX/MSP demo and a friend says in 3 days i could learn to write my own plugs! thinking about pitchscraper though; although it seems a very simple concept, in pluggo terms, when you actually think about how the buffer could draw in more audio from the upcoming track when you 'accelerate' or raise pitch, then release it at lower speed as the reaction, it begins to look like a much more complex job. especially as if i wrote it, i would have to have midi control.. hint hint; someone out there write a pitchscraper pluggo! my next thread concerns supatrigga; is there a midi equivalent? :=) thanks again n g -- addicted to free plugins! From boemtsjak at gmail.com Fri Jul 20 04:27:19 2007 From: boemtsjak at gmail.com (luc) Date: Fri Jul 20 04:27:25 2007 Subject: [pluggo] vst doesn't display text on mac Message-ID: <1b103.46a08e06@www.cycling74.com> Hi, I have made a pluggo on a windows computer. When I compile it as vst voor windows everything is fine. when I transfer this patch to a mac and compile the pluggo to a vst for mac everything seems fine. When I open it in ableton it doesn't display the text i added with comments. Does anybody know what I can do about this? luc From bbattey at dmu.ac.uk Fri Jul 20 07:11:02 2007 From: bbattey at dmu.ac.uk (Bret Battey) Date: Fri Jul 20 07:11:04 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Open Sound Control from Digital Performer (nix) Message-ID: <1b11c.46a0b465@www.cycling74.com> Well, I'm probably on my own at this one, but in case someone has any ideas, I'd be grateful: I've created a pluggo that does nothing but send OSC messages as its parameters are changed. My intent is to use this as an AU in Digital Performer 5.2., allowing me to control a SC synth's parameters with DP's effects automation. Works fine when moving the sliders in the interface of the AU in DP. OSC messages are sent. Beautiful. However, when placing automation data in the track and having DP playback the automation data, no OSC commands are sent. By inserting a MAX print, I can tell that data is entering my updsend. But it sure isn't arriving at SuperCollider. This is true whether I have DP or SC as focus. From laut_leise at gmx.net Sat Jul 21 03:20:06 2007 From: laut_leise at gmx.net (Roman Thilenius) Date: Sat Jul 21 05:33:01 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: anyone remember kuniox pitchscraper? In-Reply-To: <1b0d0.469fd46d@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1b157.46a1cfc5@www.cycling74.com> eh, the attachement got rejected via email. just an example plug-in to show how simple DSP code for buffer mangling can look in MAX. admin delete the mail if you havent done already. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: raa120x.zip Type: application/zip Size: 83127 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.cycling74.com/pipermail/pluggo/attachments/20070721/8e3538f6/raa120x.zip From nick at cassiel.com Sun Jul 22 04:01:50 2007 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Sun Jul 22 04:01:54 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Open Sound Control from Digital Performer (nix) In-Reply-To: <1b11c.46a0b465@www.cycling74.com> References: <1b11c.46a0b465@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: > However, when placing automation data in the track and having DP > playback the automation data, no OSC commands are sent. By > inserting a MAX print, I can tell that data is entering my updsend. > But it sure isn't arriving at SuperCollider. This may not be relevant, but I have noticed that udpsend seems not to be totally well-behaved in a plug-in; I came to the (perhaps rushed) conclusion that it wasn't totally thread-safe and/or not working propery in overdrive. Everything worked fine when I switched to an MXJ implementation of OSC. -- N. Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited www.cassiel.com www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom www.loadbang.net From edoardo.arengi at alice.it Mon Jul 23 02:37:53 2007 From: edoardo.arengi at alice.it (edo) Date: Mon Jul 23 02:37:55 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Problem with Audiounit Scan Message-ID: <1b1b1.46a468df@www.cycling74.com> Hi! It seems that the Audiounit Scan process has a limit to the number of VST Pluggos that can be wrapped. I have Pluggo and Hypno (latest versions) and if I add some Pluggo based plugins from other developers (Daevl.Makr, capsella, audioo etc.), the last in the list are not wrapped at all. I noticed that the exclusion is based on alphabetical order: if I put a "Z" before the "Pluggo" name of the folder, than some of the plugs contained in that folder (the ones with name starting with "W" "X" "Z") will be excluded. The same apply if I put a "Z" in front of the "audioo" name ("Z audioo"): then the plugs contained in the "Z audioo" folder won't be wrapped. My system: Dual G5 2,7, OSX 10.4.8, Pluggo 3.6.1, Hipno 1.1.1, Max/MSP 4.6.3, Jitter 1.6.3. Someone can please help? Thank you! From bbattey at dmu.ac.uk Mon Jul 23 07:28:03 2007 From: bbattey at dmu.ac.uk (Bret Battey) Date: Mon Jul 23 07:28:04 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Open Sound Control from Digital Performer (nix) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1b1c8.46a4ace2@www.cycling74.com> Unfortunately, it looks like java net sends (net.udp.send, net.tcp.send, net.multi.send) all stop working when inside a plugin in the playing DP sequencer. I also found the same problem using Apple Soundtrack. (Don't have access to other VST/AU hosts with automation to test.) From bbattey at dmu.ac.uk Tue Jul 24 10:29:23 2007 From: bbattey at dmu.ac.uk (Bret Battey) Date: Tue Jul 24 10:29:26 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Open Sound Control from Digital Performer (nix) In-Reply-To: <1b1c8.46a4ace2@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1b21e.46a628e1@www.cycling74.com> Actually, the solution here turns out to be that DP doesn't appear to run the plugin, or at least not fully, if there is no audio in the track. Place audio in the track, and all of the effects automation begins working correctly, driving SuperCollider properly. My working solution uses CNMAT [Open Sound Control] and [otudp]; didn't have to resort to an mxj solution. (( Now it becomes clear, alas, that DP always treats audiounit parameters as stair step types, not providing ramps for their automation. Silly. Logic Audio does provide ramps. )) From nick at cassiel.com Tue Jul 24 13:30:55 2007 From: nick at cassiel.com (Nick Rothwell) Date: Tue Jul 24 13:31:00 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Open Sound Control from Digital Performer (nix) In-Reply-To: <1b21e.46a628e1@www.cycling74.com> References: <1b21e.46a628e1@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: On 24 Jul 2007, at 17:29, Bret Battey wrote: > (( Now it becomes clear, alas, that DP always treats audiounit > parameters as stair step types, not providing ramps for their > automation. Silly. Logic Audio does provide ramps. )) Poo. Ableton Live does proper ramping of VST automation. (It doesn't for MIDI, which is why I ended up writing an automation-to-MIDI plugin.) Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited www.cassiel.com www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom www.loadbang.net From andrewb at cycling74.com Tue Jul 24 14:04:10 2007 From: andrewb at cycling74.com (andrew benson) Date: Tue Jul 24 14:04:11 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Open Sound Control from Digital Performer (nix) In-Reply-To: References: <1b21e.46a628e1@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <46A65B3A.7000709@cycling74.com> Did you specify your parameter ranges in floating-point? AB From laut_leise at gmx.net Wed Jul 25 07:21:38 2007 From: laut_leise at gmx.net (Roman Thilenius) Date: Wed Jul 25 07:21:40 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Re: Open Sound Control from Digital Performer (nix) In-Reply-To: <46A65B3A.7000709@cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1b25e.46a74e61@www.cycling74.com> yes exactly, in DP there was that secret rule saying please use [pp foo 0. 1 stuff]. From stefanjoachimmueller at online.de Thu Jul 26 09:26:41 2007 From: stefanjoachimmueller at online.de (Stefan Müller) Date: Thu Jul 26 09:26:43 2007 Subject: [pluggo] Re: Pluggo VST Midi Converter & Ableton LIVE 6.07 In-Reply-To: <1b01b.469d6be3@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <1b2da.46a8bd31@www.cycling74.com> got it fixed meanwhile, forgot a swap of the parameters to get it in right order before midiformat... cheers -- Macbook 2Ghz, Intel Core Duo, 2GB RAM, LIVE 6.07, Reason 3.04, Novation SL37 From Stefan-Tiedje at addcom.de Fri Jul 27 10:55:48 2007 From: Stefan-Tiedje at addcom.de (Stefan Tiedje) Date: Fri Jul 27 10:55:45 2007 Subject: [pluggo] vst doesn't display text on mac In-Reply-To: <1b103.46a08e06@www.cycling74.com> References: <1b103.46a08e06@www.cycling74.com> Message-ID: <46AA2394.8030303@addcom.de> luc schrieb: > Does anybody know what I can do about this? I would check two things: fonts and the size of the comment boxes... (most objects transfered from Win have too small sizes...) Stefan -- Stefan Tiedje------------x------- --_____-----------|-------------- --(_|_ ----|\-----|-----()------- -- _|_)----|-----()-------------- ----------()--------www.ccmix.com